Atomicorp

I'm renting a dedicated server, it's running for two years now. FedoraCore 5, with PHP 5.1.6, Plesk 9.0.1. Now, more and more apps require PHP 5.2 and it isn't available on the box. Support says that PHP 5.2 and Plesk won't go together. To my mind this is a load of smelly stuff, but hey, they are supposed to offer support. Changing to another server/provider is a hassle (about 45 domains (plus several aliases/sub domains) across several DNS servers/registrars, with websites, e-mail, configs, the lot) which I want to avoid.

So, Google pointed me to ASL and I have been reading this afternoon and ended up with several questions. Please help me, I'm no sysad (have root access though), and I'm in no mood to break the box.
ASL seems to offer more than just PHP 5.2 but lets keep that as primary focus for now.

1. Is ASL a way to go to get a decent PHP 5.2 running on that box? (More info about the box can be provided)
2. Would ASL run alongside FC5, or replace it?
3. Will ASL in any way affect my current configuration, or break support from host provider?
4. Will host provider even notice it if I install ASL?
5. Will ASL affect the provider in any way? (Backup, ...)
6. Do I need to buy ASL ($159/yr) to be able to run it?
7. What other options do I have to get PHP updated?
8. Isn't an upgrade to a more recent OS an option? (again, support says no, but they what do you think)

The forum didn't offer info about this, so your comments are appreciated.

Short answer, we do not have a PHP 5.2.x build for FC5 (its so old we never built one for it), but you might be able to get our FC6 build to work.

Now on to your specific questions:

Is ASL a way to go to get a decent PHP 5.2 running on that box? (More info about the box can be provided)

You may be referring to our atomic yum repository, and not our ASL product (ASL is our security product for Linux) - so I'll assume you are referring to our atomic repo which includes PHP and not ASL (although we're happy that you mentioned ASL!).

First point - FC5 is not supported by anyone. There are no updates available, so if there is a security issue with your platform (and there are) - there are no patches for it. Our first word of advice would be to replace the entire OS with something that is supported. If you really like Fedora, then you need to be running Fedora 10 which is supported. We would recommend, however, that you switch to Centos which has a longer support time frame. Fedora generally is on a short support timeline (say 18 months for a release), after that no updates will be released anymore and users are expected to upgrade. Centos (based on RHEL) is on a multi-year cycle (7 years). So switch to Centos or upgrade to Fedora 10 and be prepared to upgrade to Fedora 11 in the next 12 months, and so on.

As to PHP 5.2, we do not have a PHP build for FC5 but you might be able to get our FC6 build of PHP 5.2.x to work for you. Your better bet is to upgrade fedora though. FC6 isnt supported anymore either by the Fedora project, only 9 and 10 are now.

2. Would ASL run alongside FC5, or replace it?

Alongside. Neither ASL nor the atomic repos replace FC5. They work just fine with it.

3. Will ASL in any way affect my current configuration, or break support from host provider?

No likely. The atomic repo includes software that shouldn't break anything, however you will want to test any software you install on your system yourself - a major upgrade always has the potential to break something, afterall its a major change to the system. Also PHP 5.2 is VERY different from 5.1 and 5.0. There are syntax changes, feature changes, etc. So make sure your applications can work with a newer version of PHP and check with your provider to see what they sysupport. They may only support bare bones Fedora Core 5 and if you make chasnges to it, they may not support it anymore.

ASL on the other hand should not break anything, and if it does we support it and will fix it.

4. Will host provider even notice it if I install ASL?

ASL, probably not. Installing new software that makes major changes to your system, such as upgrading PHP - possibly. Ask your provider though what they support first.

5. Will ASL affect the provider in any way? (Backup, ...)

Neither will.

6. Do I need to buy ASL ($159/yr) to be able to run it?

ASL yes, atomic no. But since you want to upgrade PHP to 5.2, you dont need ASL for that.

7. What other options do I have to get PHP updated?

Upgrade to Fedora 10 or move to Cetntos 5.

No matter what you do though, stick with an rpm unless you want to maintain a source build. Not to beat a dead horse though, you really need to upgrade the OS and this would all be moot.

8. Isn't an upgrade to a more recent OS an option? (again, support says no, but they what do you think)

Oh god yes - UPGRADE! Upgrade to a more recent OS and not only do you get more modern software but you also get SUPPORT. And if your hosting provider won't do it I know there are lots of great hosting companies on these forums that would happy for your business and would gladly get your upgraded and migrated to their servers. Any hosting provider that says they can't get your on a more modern OS isn't a very good hosting provider frankly.

Just post here and I'm sure they would happy for your business.

Thanks Michael for your extensive answer, it's much appreciated. I was afraid the answer would generally be as you provided it. Personally I have no preference for an OS, as long as it (is Linux for the server, duh) reliably and securely does the job it's supposed to do.
Allow me an additional question, to get my options clear, and coming to terms with the mess I'm apparently in, for I see three possibilities;

1. Either the current host provider gets it's act together and upgrades the OS for me. This would be my personal preference, for then I won't have to deal with these issues.

2. I request the box moved from a dedicated contract (ie provider is supposed to provide support) to relocated (ie support has to be obtained elsewhere). Then I would basically buy the box. This would decrease monthly hosting costs, but would also raise questions like nightly back-ups etc. which now is provided for by the host provider. On the other hand, IP-addresses would remain the same and spare me from that hassle.
(However, on basis of your answer, that frankly seems to be the least of my worries )

3. Get a new box set-up elsewhere and transfer the sites and domains.

Question 1: In case of an upgrade, can FC5 be upgraded to CentOS whilst maintaining current paths? Or would an upgrade to another OS imply different directory paths? Particularly the path to the domains like /var/www/vhosts/website.com/httpdocs/ is set in several crontabs. The box basically operates as webserver (PHP, Apache, MySQL, with Plesk 9.0.1 for client/domain management) and doesn't have any custom software beyond that.

Question 2: In case of an upgrade to CentOS, what else should I be mindful about? I understand this could be a world in itself, so pointers will do for now, thank you.

Roel Mulder

Something that might help you is AOOI (see Step 3)
http://www.atomicorp.com/wiki/index.php ... sed_System
Would allow you to reimage the box remotely to CentOS 5. Be aware that this will wipe all data on the box and, if you're paying for support, this might nullify that support. Not all hosts will reimage a box on request, especially if they're providing support. I would definitely ask (with the note that you might look elsewhere if the answer is in the negative) since it can't hurt. Be sure the point out that FC5 has been EOL since June 29, 2007 and that's definitely not secure.

You can, if you're crazy enough (as in you tromp around in your underwear and answer to the name Napoleon Bonaparte), try to upgrade Fedora versions. This is crazy hard and will likely break your box. Reimaging is the path with fewest issues. I don't think anyone has ever tried to "upgrade" to CentOS from Fedora, nor would I see how it would be possible since they're built differently.

Highland wrote:You can, if you're crazy enough (as in you tromp around in your underwear and answer to the name Napoleon Bonaparte), try to upgrade Fedora versions.

Meaning, (apart from me having to put a cover over my webcam, bugger how did you know) that upgrade from one FC to another isn't a matter of click and pray? Is this Fedora related? For I do have SME server (CentOS) here internally, which nicely upgrades to more recent versions...

It's important to note that we're talking, more or less, epochs rather than internal versions. CentOS 4.6 will upgrade to 4.7 rather easily over yum but going from, say, 4.6 to 5.3 is hairy because you're using the files involved (kernel, etc). Fedora just has more epochs than CentOS. As I said, it CAN be done, but the number of things that can (and often do) go wrong make this an incredibly bad idea for a production box.

If you're still sure you won't meet your Waterloo in trying, here's the guide for people trying to upgrade (or take over Europe).

Good luck!

Once more into the breach!

Thanks all for your contributions. So my options are really limited since I'm no way planning to tackle this upgrade myself. You'd probably already guessed that by the nature of my questions.

I am more than willing to help you build php and anything needed for your server.

aus-city wrote:I am more than willing to help you build php and anything needed for your server.

Thx again, very generous. I am discussing my options with the host provider. In the end, it is their box that I am renting, to which they are supposed to offer support. At least, that's what I've been paying them for the past two years. So rather than 'patch' an old box myself (or have others do it for me), I do tend to accept their offer to completely upgrade the box and it's OS (to CentOS), or even move to a completely different host provider.

By analogy, it feels like throwing away a perfectly good electrical drill, just because the power leads got damaged. For me personally replacing the leads would be the natural and comfortable way to go. Others would simply trash it and buy new, simply because they never ever unscrew any devise whatsoever.
So to extend the analogy, I'm willing to be instructed and find my way in replacing the leads (an externally seen partly internal part, like setting up domains, email, hosting, databases, quotas, cron etc.), but to then go and replace the carbon brushes (part of the esoteric inner functions, like upgrading PHP beyond what is by default provided for) seems a bridge too far, even though other people may be very skilled and capable to do such a job. If you get my drift.

Not exactly a one to one analogy there, you're in an environment that is nearly 6 generations past being maintained. No security updates, no upgrades etc. Upgrading would cost more than migrating to CentOS.